Based on the Philip Roth novel, Indignation takes place in 1951, as Marcus Messner (Logan Lerman), a brilliant working class Jewish boy from Newark, New Jersey, travels on scholarship to a small, conservative college in Ohio, thus exempting him from being drafted into the Korean War. But once there, Marcus’s growing infatuation with his beautiful classmate, Olivia Hutton (Sarah Gadon), and his clashes with the college’s Dean, Hawes Caudwell (Tracy Letts), put his and his family’s best laid plans to the ultimate test. Indignation’s impressive cast also features Ben Rosenfield and Broadway veterans Danny Burstein and Linda Emond.
As a writer and producer of many award-winning films over the past 25 years including The Ice Storm, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and Brokeback Mountain, first-time director James Schamus brings his incredible sensitivity and skill to this story. I sat down with him in Los Angeles to talk about what he learned making his first film after working closely for so long with some of the world’s best directors.
Danny Miller: With all of your experience in so many aspects of the filmmaking process, you’re obviously not the “typical” first-time director. Were there moments during the making of Indignation when you were tempted to put one of your other hats on and give advice to your director self?
James Schamus: Oh, I definitely had a running sociopathic dialogue with myself throughout the film! (Laughs.) But to be honest, I think one of the things I did as a producer that served me well was make a conscious decision to stop thinking like a producer at a certain point in the process. Of course, when you only have 24 days to shoot a movie and very little resources, you definitely have to be conscious of your material circumstances. But I learned from working with people like the Coen brothers, Gus Van Sant, and Ang Lee, that it’s actually possible to make very good movies and still be human being on set and get your crews home for dinner.
You’ve worked with so many amazing directors. Did making this film make you empathize with them in a different way?
Yes and no. When you’re there in the trenches with people, you tend to see different points of view. And if you’re doing your job as a producer, you’re constantly solving problems and presenting options. You don’t say to Ang Lee, “Sorry, Ang, but you can’t do that scene because you’ve run out of time and money.” The conversation is more like, “Ang, if we keep doing this, in six hours you’re going to have a problem. Here are three ways we can deal with it…” You need to be proactive and make decisions, and that ability helped me a lot while making this film.
And I’m sure being the screenwriter, too, added an additional layer.
Yes. Ang used to try to play that card with me. “But what about your wonderful words,” he’d say. And I was like, “Dude, we’re losing the light, cut the scene if you want!”
Logan Lerman gives such an impressive performance in this film. I’ve liked him so much in every film I’ve seen him in — it’s hard to believe how young he is.
Logan flew to L.A. after he first read the script and we talked for hours and hours. He had so many questions and so much to share about his understanding of this character. I thought, “This guy is a dream!” Logan’s been working since he was 8, he’s been on more film sets than I have! I remember him saying to me that first day, “These are your words, this is your script, what’s your way of making sure that your vision is delivered the way you want?” That made me think. I said, “Look, the script is the floor of the film. If we’re going to survive this experience, the floor has to be sturdy — I’m not one of those directors who is soliciting improv on the set. We can talk about it, I’m always open to ideas, but in order for the movie to work, the actors need to dance on that floor and I will shoot that dance. If I was just shooting the script, I’d be shooting the floor and that is not a movie!”
You’ve adapted other books for the screen. Does that add an extra layer, especially when the author is still alive and much beloved?
Yes, absolutely, but the truth is that all good adaptations are, by definition, unfaithful to their sources to a certain extent. You’re interpreting, you’re responding to what’s happening on set — you have to, it’s a different medium. I mean, you do want to follow the blueprint that the book provides, but that should still allow for creativity and collaboration and surprise.
Was Philip Roth himself involved with the film in any way?
It’s funny because about a month before we started preproduction I made what was probably the stupidest decision I’ve made in my entire career — but I felt I had to do it. I sent Philip Roth the script!
Oh wow. And what happened? That definitely seems risky!
I know! And to be honest, if he didn’t like it, I probably would have called off the show — in good conscience I just couldn’t have made the film. But here’s what Philip Roth did which was probably the nicest thing anyone has ever done for me: he refused to read the script! It was his way of saying, “Go!”
That’s amazing! And has he seen the movie?
Yes. I screened it for him and he wrote some beautiful words about it that we read aloud at the Sundance premiere. I feel like the luckiest filmmaker in the world!
Very cool. I have to talk about your spectacular cast. Was it your decision to use a lot of New York theater people?
For this kind of project, we didn’t have the luxury of a big budget and I had to hire local people. But with the wealth of talent that exists in New York, why would I ever look elsewhere? In a story like this, you need people who have the skills to make the language their own. I’ve always liked bringing in people from the theater. I certainly did that with The Ice Storm.
Oh, God, Joan Allen was so great in that film! I grew up in Chicago and saw every single thing she did at the Steppenwolf Theater, she is such a goddess!
She really is. And, as you know, Tracy Letts comes from that Steppenwolf Theater world, too. I have such a love for the theater world and I’ve been lucky to be able to cast true stage royalty in many of my films, including this one.
And even though Sigourney Weaver was already a movie star when she did The Ice Storm, she is so amazing on the stage as well.
Totally amazing. Did you see Vanya and Sonia and Masha and Spike?
No, darn it, but my daughter did and said Weaver was fantastic.
It was just ridiculous, she is so incredible.
I thought Danny Burstein was brilliant in the film as Marcus’s troubled father, but I just want to take a moment to fawn over Linda Emond in the role of the mother.
Thank you! It’s just absurd how good she is. And you know what? Nothing gets by Linda Emond — nothing! She has such a relentless intelligence, always questioning, always present and mindful. She really brought her game to that role.
The scene where she comes to visit Marcus at college, I don’t think it even lasts very long, but it’s some of the best acting I’ve ever seen on the screen.
Ever! We shot that scene in very long takes and I remember looking at the crew and they were all just dumbfounded, there was a real sense that something was going on.
Also, if I were an acting teacher, I’d just show that scene between Tracy Letts and Logan Lerman in the Dean’s office over and over gain. What a tour de force! What was that day like?
Oh God. Remember, we only had 24 days to shoot the whole movie so that scene was shot just in one day! One way I dealt with it was by simply pretending it was no big deal even though I knew we were all pretty terrified of that scene. We knew that if that scene didn’t work, the movie would fail, the stakes were that high! Honestly, Logan prepped for months for that scene.
How did you deal with the pressure on the set?
I made a few big decisions. Our takes in that scene were very long, about 18 minutes. We’d finish a take I’d say “Okay, let’s do it again,” but I had decided to only give each actor ONE note in between takes no matter how many things came to mind. When you see an 18-minute take you see a lot of things you could say — believe me, I could have given notes all day. But I kept with my vow and after each scene I thought, “What is one thing I could say to Tracy or Logan that would help them pivot the scene in a way where they could do even more amazing things?” Those guys were incredible, they never flubbed a single line — it was just bizarre, it almost superhuman!