“The Little Death” is the English translation for the French phrase, “La Petite Mort,” a euphemism for orgasm. Josh Lawson’s feature film debut is a fascinating and sometimes shocking look at the secret lives of five suburban couples living in Sydney. Lawson, a popular actor and comedian in Australia, also appears in the film along with a great ensemble cast. Five different sexual predilections are addressed via the couples: sexual masochism (sexual gratification from humiliation, pain, and suffering); somnophilia (sexual arousal from watching a person sleep); role play fetishism (sexual arousal by pretending to be someone else); dacryphilia (sexual pleasure in seeing someone cry); and telephone scatalogia (sexual arousal from making obscene phone calls to strangers). Who knew? I sat down with Josh Lawson to discuss the film and the various audience reactions.
Danny Miller: How weird is it to do press for this film and talk to strangers about sex all day long?
Josh Lawson: Well, I talk about sex all of the time anyway, so now I just do it with a microphone in front of me! (Laughs.) I think a movie about sex puts people in the perfect place to laugh or be moved because it makes us all a bit vulnerable. People come in with a lot of their own baggage about this topic and it’s up to us to disarm them and push them in the right direction. We want them to feel they’re in safe hands and that we’re going to have fun — not be disrespectful or offensive.
This almost seems like an entry-level film for people who may not be comfortable talking about their own sexual fetishes. I’m guessing people have wildly different reactions to the stories.
Oh, definitely, you have no idea!
The one that I probably had the most issues with was the fetish that involved seeing your partner cry. Some of the things Rowena does to bring on her husband’s tears are absolutely appalling but that actress was so appealing and sweet that I never quite turned on her!
It’s so funny that you singled her out — Rowena was definitely one of the toughest roles to cast. People kept coming in to read for her but they ended up seeming way too villainous. I tried softening it in the script but that didn’t work either. But then Kate Box came in to audition, and within five seconds I knew that was our Rowena. She really pulled it off!
I also loved Bojana Novakovic, the actress who played Maeve, your partner in the movie.
She is a wonderful actress and such a lovely person — we were in the same class at drama school.
Of course her character’s rape fantasy storyline is probably the most controversial one in the film, even though I’m guessing it’s a fairly common fantasy among couples.
Absolutely. Almost everyone I spoke to either had been involved in a relationship where one partner had that fantasy or they knew someone who had. I just felt like I had to include that story.
Did you worry that you’d be criticized for it when the film came out?
Yes, we were all a bit worried about it, to be honest, and it does comes up a lot.
I think people reading about the film might get more rattled than the folks who actually see how it plays out with this couple.
It’s true, and when people criticize me for that without having seen the film, that really bothers me. But at the same time, you can’t let that kind of fear dictate what you write. One thing I’ve learned is that if your aim is to please everyone, you will please no one. Trying to be popular is just about the worst place to start writing anything.
Much less writing about sexuality and these individual preferences.
Exactly. So yeah, I’m a little afraid, but I try not to think about it too much since I know in my heart that I wasn’t trying to do anything offensive — I was just trying to tell a love story that had some sharp edges but was ultimately very hopeful.
And frankly, Paul, your character, and Maeve were one of the most loving couples in the film.
Right. In order to go to that darker place, their foundation had to be super strong. If it were anything less than rock solid, that story wouldn’t have worked at all.
It was also different from some of the others in that he was just trying to accommodate her deepest wish as opposed to some of the ones where one partner was unaware of the fetish.
That’s exactly right. A lot of the other stories are about how to negotiate through a fetish that perhaps the person was too embarrassed to discuss. How can they get what they want without ever saying what they want? But this one was the opposite — Maeve said clearly, “This is what I want, please do this for me.” Paul’s dilemma is how to deliver something that he doesn’t really understand or know how to do. And then he over-delivers.
The one about somnophilia, wanting to see your partner sleeping, was an odd one and made me wonder if that was part of Bill Cosby’s issues and why he allegedly drugged all those women.
Good lord — I wrote that long before the Bill Cosby thing came out but yeah, who knows? But the most common version of that fantasy does not involve touching — it’s about people getting sexual gratification from just watching their partner sleep.
Oh, but this story goes further than that.
Does it? You never see what he does with her and I personally don’t believe Phil ever violated his wife while she was sleeping. But I think that’s part of the participatory nature of watching this movie — I didn’t want to answer all of the questions that these scenarios bring up. I was much more interested in the stories people tell in their heads.
Wow, I guess it’s like a Rorschach test! It must be fascinating to see the different reactions people have. For me, that story was definitely the creepiest one.
It’s certainly the saddest one. It was important for me to have emotional ups and downs throughout the film. I wanted viewers to sometimes have those “ew” moments so they could come back up again and have moments of relief. I don’t think the film would have worked if it was all on that positive level.
I thought the story of Monica and Sam is very well placed because I found it utterly delightful even though it’s about having Monica awkwardly connect the hearing impaired Sam to an explicit sex line. Did I read that the actor playing Sam is not really deaf? He did an amazing job.
No, TJ Power is not deaf. We put out a call for deaf actors in Australia (there are not very many) and the ones who auditioned had never acted on screen and were just too rough. Being deaf was only one part of Sam’s character and I needed to find an actor who could do it all. TJ learned sign language for the role and also spent a lot of time with some deaf relatives he has. He learned it so well that he could improvise during the scene. We also had a sign language expert on set to make sure we were getting everything right. We shot that scene over two days and at the end TJ thanked the crew and they were like, “What?!” They all assumed he was really deaf. He was so good in that part because it’s not just about your hands when you’re signing — what you do with your face also carries a lot of meaning.
Speaking of representation, has anyone questioned why you didn’t have any gay couples in the film?
Yes, for sure, and it’s a very fair question because it’s a film about sex and we have five different couples, so…why not? My honest answer is that I started to write this film eight years ago when I was in my early 20s and I just wasn’t thinking about it — it wasn’t part of my experience. The world has changed a lot in the past eight years, there’s so much more awareness now. Believe me, if I were writing the film today, I would definitely include gay couples.
I can see more films using this same exact structure and you could include gay couples and more diversity in those.
Definitely. I would so love to do that!
I found it interesting that there was no nudity in a film that is mostly about sex.
Yeah, that was a deliberate decision. I just don’t find nudity provocative anymore. I don’t find it shocking at all, just kind of boring. Okay, there are tits and a dick — big deal! We’ve seen it so often. I was much more interested in story and character.
As you travel around the world talking about this movie, I’m curious if you find Americans to be more prudish. Do Australians tend to talk about sex more freely?
It’s very interesting. Prior to the release of this film I would have thought, yes, there’s more of a conservative edge about sex here in America. But I’ve shown the film at several American festivals and I’ve completely changed my tune. The Americans have responded to the film more positively than Australians so my understanding of that has flipped!
I also wanted to compliment you on the film’s dynamic soundtrack. I’ve talked to people involved in big studio films who’ve said they can’t use the songs they really wanted to on their soundtracks because they couldn’t afford it. How did you pull that off? Did you have a big music budget?
We had zero dollars for our music budget. So, I will now admit to you that I went into personal debt for that! I just thought it was so important for the film — I couldn’t imagine it without that music. I think this subject can really put people on a razor’s edge so for me the soundtrack was necessary.
I think it really helps punctuate those stories in an effective way.
I’m very happy to hear you say that. Now would you mind calling up my accountant who thinks I’m the dumbest person in the world?