Between the two of them, producers Christine Vachon and Elizabeth Karlsen are responsible for many acclaimed independent films including Boys Don’t Cry, Happiness, and The Crying Game. Vachon produced Todd Haynes’ first feature, Poison, and also worked with him on Safe, Velvet Goldmine, Far From Heaven, and I’m Not There. I sat down with the two producers to talk about Haynes’ latest film, Carol, an adaptation of Patricia Highsmith’s seminal novel The Price of Salt. This gorgeous film, already an awards favorite, follows two women from very different backgrounds who find themselves in a love affair in 1950s New York. Therese Belivet (Rooney Mara) is a young woman working in a Manhattan department store and dreaming of a more fulfilling life when she meets Carol (Cate Blanchett), an older woman trapped in a loveless marriage. Their immediate connection eventually turns into something much deeper, but the conventions of the time create serious problems for the women. With a screenplay by Phyllis Nagy, Carol also stars Kyle Chandler, Sarah Paulson, and Jake Lacy.
Danny Miller: Looking at your combined list of films, I see many from my Top Ten lists for the past two decades. Am I correct in assuming that having that amazing track record does not automatically guarantee an easy road to getting new films made?
Christine Vachon: (Laughs.) You are correct. It does not get easier.
Elizabeth Karlsen: Especially as we get older. We keep talking about Phase 3 which includes growing grapes or opening a B&B somewhere!
I think there’s a lot of confusion among laypeople about what producers really do on a film. And it’s more complicated now because most films have so many producers listed.
Christine: I know. I often see the myriad numbers of produced listed for a movie on IMDB and think, “Okay, who actually worked on the film?” For me, that’s the person who’s been with it for a very long time, who helped bring it along from idea to script to package to financing to the screen. But the fact remains that there are other people listed because of financial negotiations or actors saying they’ll do it if they get a producer credit. I really don’t begrudge those credits even though sometimes when you see people that you’ve never even met it can seem a bit excessive!
Elizabeth: Sometimes it’s a little painful. It seems strange to me that somebody would want that credit if they really had nothing to do with the film.
Well, obviously you two are “real” producers! Have you been involved with this story for a long time?
Christine: Well, Liz was on it first, way before Todd Haynes.
Elizabeth: Yeah, it was really Phyllis Nagy who wrote and directed the TV movie, Mrs. Harris, that Christine and I produced. Phyllis mentioned it to me then that she wanted to write the movie but the rights to the Patricia Highsmith novel weren’t free. I was excited about the idea so I kept my eye on it and when those rights became free years later, I went after it with a vengeance. It’s funny, when I think about what I did now, it doesn’t seem like me at all.
Christine: What? May I just say that what Liz just said is ridiculous? It’s exactly what you do, who are you talking about?
Elizabeth: Really? I don’t think of myself that way! (Laughs.) It’s almost like you get into a kind of frenzied state where you’re obsessed with something and then when you look at it later you go “Wow, what was I doing?” But it’s true that you can’t really be a producer if you tend to second guess yourself and say things like, “Well, I’d like to do it but I’m not sure it will ever see the light of day.” Forget about it, you’ll never get anything made.
Considering what else Patricia Highsmith wrote, and the other movies she’s responsible for, it’s hard to believe there haven’t been attempts to turn this novel into a movie before.
I know. Phyllis had been on it for a very long time, which is why she almost didn’t come back on when I called her and said, “Great news, I’ve got the rights to the book, let’s do it!” Her first response was, “I can’t, I’ve had my heart broken too many times with this.”
Christine: I remember seeing some early versions that predated Liz’s involvement — they just hadn’t cracked the story yet. Over the years there were scripts that came across my desk for directors like Kimberly Peirce and Rose Trochet who was attached to it for a while.
Elizabeth: Films start in all sorts of different ways, but when you have a project that’s been around for a while and has gone across people’s desks that’s also a scary prospect because things kind of gather a smell. “Oh, this again?” So it was a little tricky.
“We already did a lesbian movie last year!”
Exactly. Or worse: “We already did a movie with a woman in it!” (Laughs.) But you go in knowing that it’s crossed everyone’s desk, you just have to find within yourself an arrogance that says, “I can get this made and it can be special.” Christine and I have been friends for about 30 years and we share a kind of passion and an aesthetic for a certain kind of film. You just have to go in looking at the finish line.
Was casting Cate Blanchett what sealed the deal?
Christine: It sure didn’t hurt. You always have to always think what’s making my movie makeable — is it the actors, the story, the director? You pull all of these things together and then your film is green lit.
Elizabeth: We initially went through Cate’s manager who read it and said, “I think it’s terrific, but you should know she rarely does independent movies.” But Christine and Todd had worked with her which helps because there’s a level of trust. Once Cate and Todd were on board, we were on our way, but even then it was a struggle. “Oh, it’s a story about women, those women are gay, it’s a period film. Todd isn’t a mainstream director.” All that stuff.
Do you think the changing sensibilities of our time helped to get the film made now compared to, say, 10 years ago?
Christine: I’m not sure. Todd always talks about how love stories only work if there’s something keeping the lovers apart. He thought Brokeback Mountain, for example, completely revitalized the love story. Nowadays, in our progressive society, it’s strains believability that people would be kept apart because of race or class or religion or any of the things that traditionally were the obstacles. At the end of the day, we resist painting Carol as too much of an “issues” move because it is first and foremost a really exhilarating love story.
I agree, even though people are still probably going to use that shorthand and call it “that Cate Blanchett lesbian movie.”
Elizabeth: For sure. But I just love the trailer for Carol. I think it really does make your hair stand on end because it is such a lush love story — that was Todd’s main focus. And everybody loves a good love story, especially at Christmas!