Mike Nichols wowed movie and theatergoing audiences for more than six decades with a rich and deeply varied body of work. Just four months before he died, in a set of final, historic interviews, Nichols opened up to his close friend and colleague, theater director Jack O’Brien, about the storied beginnings of his career, including his comedy collaboration with Elaine May, his direction of two Neil Simon stage classics, and his acclaimed feature-film debut, Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? and its follow-up, The Graduate. With disarming candor and wit, Nichols delivered a master class on his craft in what would be his last in-depth interviews, for the Douglas McGrath’s documentary Becoming Mike Nichols, debuting Monday, February 22, exclusively on HBO, following its world premiere at the 2016 Sundance Film Festival. I spoke with the talented McGrath (who wrote screenplays for films such as Bullets Over Broadway, Emma, and Nicholas Nickleby, and whose Tony Award-winning Beautiful: The Carole King Musical is currently on Broadway) about this riveting documentary.
Danny Miller: Are you familiar with the Jewish expression we chant during Passover: “Dayyenu” which means “It would have been enough?”
Douglas McGrath: Oh sure.
Watching this film, I kept thinking, “If Mike Nichols had JUST done that brilliant work with Elaine May: Dayyenu! If he had JUST directed those Neil Simon plays on Broadway: Dayyenu! If he had JUST made the films Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf? and The Graduate: Dayyenu!
(Laughs.) I know, he was so amazing. That’s one of the things I most admire about Mike. At any point, with Elaine, or Neil Simon, or so many of the things he did he could have said, “Okay, I found the formula, I’m just sticking with this. I’m going to milk it for all I can!” But he never did that — he kept learning, he kept growing, he kept trying new things for the rest of his life. He’s really a fantastic example for anyone.
It’s so sad that he died not long after you shot these interviews. Were his ongoing health problems a motivator for making the film?
I honestly don’t know. We certainly didn’t know he was going to die so soon. When I went to meet with Mike about doing this film he did look a little frail but he did not seem frail, he seemed energetic and vivacious and strong. Whatever his health issues were, he didn’t speak of them.
I am such a fan of Nichols and May, I must have listened to their routines hundreds of times. This is a dumb question, but hearing the way he talked about meeting her in the film, were they ever a couple? I don’t remember ever reading that.
You know, that was briefly touched on in the interviews we did but we ended up cutting it for pacing. He said that they had a brief flirtation at first but it just didn’t work for them romantically because they found each other too funny. You don’t really want someone laughing at you when you’re nibbling on their neck! They were so attracted to each other intellectually, comically, and artistically, I think they thought, as you said, “Dayyenu! It’s enough!”
As I watched this film, I wondered if you’d considered interviewing Elaine May and other people Nichols worked with over the years, and then I heard about Elaine’s own American Masters tribute to him that just came out on PBS. I haven’t seen that film yet. Were both projects happening concurrently?
We became aware of Elaine’s film much later, but we had made the decision early on to not include any outside interviews. We felt we had a very unique opportunity here. We had Mike Nichols willing to sit down and answer any question about anything he had done in his life. I thought, that’s the documentary I want to make, even though I love that other kind of film, too. We felt we had something very unique. In some ways, this film came about because Mike had decided not to write an autobiography, so he thought this documentary could serve a similar purpose. And once that idea existed, we thought it should just be Mike talking about Mike.
Was the intention always to focus on the early parts of his career?
No, not at first. We filmed him for three days and during that time Jack O’Brien asked Mike about everything. But it became obvious in the editing room that what Mike really wanted to talk about were the early years. Those were the questions he answers the most fully, the most enthusiastically, the most affectionately, and with the most amount of observation. Jack asked him about many of the other films he did from Carnal Knowledge to Angels in America to Silkwood, and Mike would answer but he never had that much to say. I loved the idea of picking a wedge of time and showing how that created the foundation for the whole of his life.
He comes across as such an affable, friendly guy but at several points in the film he talks very honestly about what a shit he could be — first with Elaine and then with film crews and others. Do you think he was being self-deprecating or do you think he was just very self-aware at that point and recognized that side of himself?
I don’t think Mike was particularly self-deprecating, I think he was just telling the truth as he saw it. He was always very loved by the people who worked with him and certainly in my experience with him he couldn’t have been more charming or supportive. But when you’re making a big movie with Elizabeth Taylor and Elizabeth Burton, or The Graduate, or whatever big project you’re working on, there’s so much pressure, so many time constraints, and so many issues to deal with that it’s easy to get very tense and focused getting your vision on the screen. And sometimes other people have an idea of what they think should be on the screen, whether it’s Jack Warner who tried to make him shoot Who’s afraid of Virginia Woolf? in color, or an actor who has an idea about a part, whatever it is, as a filmmaker you have to be able to persist and get the look and tone of what you want on the screen. Mike sometimes had difficulties with his cinematographers because he had ideas of what the film should look like and they weren’t always in agreement with that. Mike came to his first few films with an extraordinary intelligence, even if he didn’t have a lot of technical knowledge about filmmaking, he knew what had to be in it artistically, so he persisted until he got what he wanted.
The Graduate is one of my favorite films of all time, I can’t even count how many times I’ve seen it. I saw Nichols introduce it at the Academy a few years ago and he told that great story that we also hear in your film about how the song “Mrs. Robinson” came to be. I love hearing him talk about The Graduate, were there any stories about it that didn’t make it into the documentary?
Well, there’s that wonderful story about Bob Redford wanting to play Benjamin Braddock and Mike saying, “No way!” Bob begged Mike to let him test for it. They had already worked together on Barefoot in the Park and were friends.
And the character of Benjamin in the book was closer to Robert Redford than Dustin Hoffman.
Only in looks, not in temperament. And Mike, who was so smart, knew that matching the right temperament was way more important. Benjamin had to convey that anxiety, panic and fear. So he kept saying to Bob, “This part just isn’t right for you.” And Bob said, “Why not?” Mike said, “Tell me what you do when a girl turns you down.” And Bob said, “What do you mean?” Mike said, “That’s what I’m talking about!”
Ha! That’s so great! I’d always heard that rumor that Doris Day had been considered for Mrs. Robinson. Did he ever touch on that?
You know, I heard that, too, and even though Anne Bancroft was obviously sensational in the part, I always thought it was a fabulous idea. It kills me that we forgot to ask him that because I’d really like to know the answer!
He has such a great rapport with Jack O’Brien in the film, did they know each other well?
One of the nicest things about Mike is that he was always interested in other talent. He was very enthusiastic about other people and had make Jack backstage at one of the shows Jack did. They struck up a friendship and had been friends for many years. One of the most important things Jack does for the movie, I think, is because he and Mike had been friends for so long, Mike is relaxed in a way in the film that I haven’t seen him in other interviews. He’s wonderful in all his interviews but there’s a kind of formal quality to them. But with Jack, it’s just like two pals sitting around chatting.
I knew about Nichols’ childhood in Nazi Germany but it’s so crazy to think about. He didn’t seem that old and certainly didn’t seem like your typical immigrant. Do you think his unusual childhood experience informed his later work?
It’s funny, we had a premiere of the film in New York and I talked to the audience about this very thing that you’re asking. Yes, I do think growing up in Germany at that time and then going from that terrible place to this wonderful country affected him in many ways. At first he was an immigrant in a new country who didn’t speak English. When you’re a kid, all you want to do is fit in with the other kids, you don’t want to be different. But first you have to understand what’s going on. I think that forced Mike to develop what is the greatest of his many talents — the ability to look at people with an acute and refined sense of personal observation; the qualities that make you like you and me like me. Mike learned to catalog and identify all kinds of human mannerisms and traits. I think that informed both his work with Elaine and later his work as a director.
It’s funny how people like Mike and Billy Wilder, who both came as refugees from Nazi Europe, made some of the most quintessentially American films of all time.
In a strange way, amidst the ghastly horrors that marked Hitler’s impact on the world, the “plus side” is that he drove all of those great artists out of Germany who then became essential and invaluable American filmmakers: Mike, Billy Wilder, Lubitsch, so many artists that Hitler chased out that made a huge impact on our culture.
I’ll be sure to stress your comments about the “plus side” of Hitler! I wanted to mention that I’m so looking forward to seeing your play Beautiful when it comes to Los Angeles in June. But after seeing Jessie Mueller’s performance on the Tonys, how can anyone else play Carole King?
Did you know that the woman doing it on the road is Jessie Mueller’s sister, Abby Mueller?
You’re kidding!
Yes, and she’s absolutely sensational. And I’ll tell you another funny thing. Jessie won a Tony for the part but when we opened the show in London, we found this woman, Katie Brayben who was so great, in a different way than Jessie and Abby. She was so beguiling that she won an Olivier for the part. So there you go!