I’ve long been a fan of writer/director Ti West and his intelligent brand of horror films such as The House of the Devil and The Innkeepers. Knowing that his new film, The Sacrament, was going to be a departure from the kind of supernatural elements usually found in his movies, I was curious to see if the film would hold the same kind of thrills and chills that I’m used to seeing in his work. And guess what? I found the much more “realistic” scenarios presented in this film about a hundred times scarier. The film induces a kind of terror that stays with you far longer than the visceral in-the-moment experience of watching a good horror flick. It’s more horrifying precisely because it’s based on real events (while the film is set in contemporary times, there are many nods to the 1978 Jonestown tragedy) and could conceivably happen to us or people we know.
Patrick (Kentucker Audley) is a fashion photographer traveling to meet his sister Caroline (Amy Seimetz) at Eden Parish, a commune located in some undisclosed foreign country, where she’s been living at since she left her drug rehabilitation program. Patrick brings his friends, Vice Media correspondents Sam (AJ Bowen) and Jake (Joe Swanberg) who hope to get a good story out of the visit. They are met by Patrick’s sister who seems much happier and healthier than she’s been in a long time. The two reporters talk to some of Eden Parish’s residents who have nothing but praise for the commune and they make plans to meet the group’s mysterious leader, known only as “Father” (Gene Jones). But the three visitors soon discover that this paradise may not be exactly what is seems. “It was important to me not to portray these characters as mindless, psychotic cult members,” Ti West said, “but as relatable real people who, for many reasons, chose an alternative and controversial path for their lives. I hope to have created a film that is both scary and socially relevant, one that provokes an audience to think deeply about its content.”
I recently had the chance to sit down with the actors who play the brother and sister in the film, Kentucker Audley and Amy Seimetz (who are also accomplished writers and filmmakers) as well as charismatic “Father” himself, Gene Jones.
Danny Miller: I’ve seen all of Ti West’s films and I have to say that this one scared me more than any of the others even though it’s the first one that’s devoid of any supernatural elements.
Kentucker Audley: I think in this film Ti was trading in the horror for the horrific and it works! This is the kind of film that sticks with you for a long time.
I’ve always been fascinated by cults — and other kinds of close-knit communities. I would never join such a group but I have to say that I can see the appeal — knowing what your role is in the community, working closely together with others for a common goal.
Amy Seimetz: Me, too! I think life can be so confusing and chaotic that it works to give people rules to live by, something to live for. You have to believe in something to get yourself out of bed some days! And my character, Caroline, desperately wants to believe in this because it helped her make sense of her life and deal with her addiction.
Gene Jones: I never had that “group gene” at all. I’m older than you but I remember groups like EST and the ones coming out of the Esalen Institute and other places in the 60s that were so popular. But most of the time these groups blew up when their founders were found to be a little nuts!
Gene, you’re so effective as Father that after five minutes I was like, “Where do I sign up for Eden Parish? What country are we going to next?” You’re so great in this part that I started to fantasize about all the roles I’d like to see you in.
Thank you! From your lips to Quentin Tarantino’s ears!
And I have to admit that at the beginning I was on Father’s side. He was giving really good answers to those obnoxious filmmakers. Of course I knew something more ominous was going on.
What was ominous was that I was trying to intimidate the Vice people by refusing to meet with them except in public. And, of course, I knew the people who’d be sitting out there were completely on my side. I was trumping their ace and showing my power by only talking to them in front of that crowd. I played Father as someone who seems perfectly nice and reasonable at first — the kind of guy who’s going to fix you somehow, who you’d leave your family and country for and follow into the jungle!
You can totally see why the people there would have followed him. Their lives DID seem a lot better.
Amy: What you have to remember is that no one ever thinks they’re joining a “cult.” It happens over time, even in a place like Jonestown. Jim Jones was a savior to those people. On paper he was doing great things for them. Here was a guy who was standing up for people in communities where they were being terrorized, working really hard for civil rights and being a huge proponent for the poor. He gave people a family and a loving community — they never dreamed they were joining a cult where there was a possibility that they might have to kill themselves one day.
But then, like Father, the core of paranoia that he was living with and the megalomania eventually took over.
Gene: When I played Father I took everything in the script at face value. I believed that Father was being honest. I think he believes everything he says — the problem, of course, is that he believes some absolutely poisonous things and when that comes out, it’s a horrible, bitter poison.
Kentucker: Ti liked to say that while it didn’t work, you can see that it could have worked. I don’t know if the Father character was destined to be a maniac — maybe under other circumstances it wouldn’t have ended this way.
Amy: Certainly not every group that we deem a cult ends so tragically. “Cult” is just a word we use to describe any young religion. But we’ve seen how some of these groups can lead you to really horrifying places and compel good people to do very horrible things. To me, showing that very real possibility in a movie is so much more terrifying than any kind of monster you could make up.
And in your character’s case, Amy, this was the first group that enabled her to beat her addiction. No wonder she was so positive about it.
Exactly. It’s very scary for an addict to come out of an addiction — you’re extremely vulnerable and you’re looking for answers and something to guide you so you don’t go back. For some people that’s religion. So when it works you really want to believe that you’ve found the answer because if it’s not that the answer, there’s the fear that you’ll go back to your old ways.
Kentucker: Amy and I spent a lot of time discussing our back story as brother and sister. The back-and-forth nature of her being addicted to drugs and me trying to help time and again. After a while there was just a lot of damage done to the relationship and my character has no idea if it can ever be repaired. So I go to this place to see where she’s at, even if I’m not that hopeful.
I think it’s so cool that you two are both filmmakers as well as actors and that so many of you in the cast have appeared in each other’s movies. It’s almost like a repertory company or the best parts of the old studio system.
Amy: It really feels like we grew up together.
Except for you, Gene — you were new to this group which was probably helpful considering the part you were playing. I saw your great scene in No Country for Old Men and some other movies but was your main background on the stage?
Yes, I did that for many years and I still do although I no longer want to live out of a suitcase as you have to do when you tour in a play or do regional theater. The first film I ever said words in, though, was The Great Santini with Robert Duvall. I was the bartender in the Officers’ Club when the kid comes in to buy a drink on his 18th birthday. Let me tell you — Robert Duvall was so good to me. They got his angle of the scene and said, “Okay, Mr. Duvall, we’re through with you for the day,” and he said, “No, I’ll stay and give the kid something to act to.” And he sat there while I did my four or five lines.
Wow, that’s a great story.
I finally got to thank him for it a few years ago at a birthday party for playwright Horton Foote. Robert Duvall was an early champion of his and I was so happy I ran into him there and got to thank him personally for that. Now whenever I’m in that position I always stay and help the other actors out.
Amy, you’ve had such success in the indie film world, with your own movies like Sun Don’t Shine (with AJ and Kentucker) as well as acting in films such as You’re Next and Upstream Color. Can you see yourself working on huge studio movies some day? Do you have any fears of “selling out” by suddenly finding yourself making a multi-million dollar rom-com?
Amy: (Laughs.) They’re not really handing those out so I haven’t been in that predicament yet! And I think it takes just as much work to have the goal of being in those kinds of films. I think everyone has their own idea of what selling out is. When you’re doing a performance or writing or directing something that you think is good, you don’t want to change it just to fit in with whatever someone else is doing. As long as you’re not shorting yourself on integrity, that’s the answer for me. But it’s different for everyone.
Kentucker: I think I started in this business with a misconception that it would be easier to make a living. It’s extremely difficult to make a decent living on the indie margins. A film like this is really the lowest rung on which you can hope to make any money at all and this was a four million dollar movie. If someone had told me five years ago that I’d be acting in a four million dollar film, I would’ve thought that I’d be doing great financially but it’s still a struggle. I love the idea of working on much bigger projects from time to time so that I can make a living!
I love your website NoBudge.com. It’s such a great place for indie filmmakers to get their stuff out there. I recently watched Bryan Wizemann’s excellent short Film Makes Us Happy about the problems his life as an independent filmmaker has caused to his marriage. That film really touches on the difficulties of devoting yourself to that type of work. I hope they made it in the end.
I’m not sure how they are doing now but yeah, that conflict is very upsetting to watch. It’s a real-life horror movie!